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Friday's COT2 practice with JG1


WWCephas
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I was late for Friday COOP and saw that everyone was in Hyperlobby with JG1 practicing so I joined in.

I had a really good time going up against JG1, the way their pilots stick together is impressive, especially with short range icons. I had three events that really were very cool last night though.

I took up a 109 with a SC500 looking for ships, but could find none in the channel. I then headed over to the British isle and circled at 4k meters. Looking down I saw 3 fighters in formation ready to takeoff and my heart jumped, poor saps. Oh well war is hell. I winged over and commenced my dive. Halfway down I saw smoke kick up as they began their run in tight formation. I pulled back a bit and began estimating the amount of lead I would need to catch them with zero bomb delay. Flak bursting around me I dropped my present at just under 1K aiming about 150 meters ahead of them. As I pulled back and headed south I was rewarded with 2 immediate kills. Looking back as I turned I could see the third plane limping into the air and crashing shortly after. One of their planes flying cover tried to catch me but at 700 KMH after my dive I left him in the dust. Now I know this is vulching, but darn it felt good.

My second best event was a 20+ minute dogfight with 2 spits on the deck. We danced endlessly in and out of the clouds, and every time I just about had one of them in my sights the other would be on me. Mercifully they missed with most of thier cannon at first and their MG fire failed to find anything serious except my rudder. Many calls to the FW's produced no help, but that's what I get for going in alone. Eventually they ran out of ammo and one headed for home. My plane was full of holes but the engine was still running strong so I tried to chase him down (silly idea). Just as I was at .35 and ready to fire as he was turning over his island another fresh Spit jumped me and his first cannon shot tore off my already badly shot up tail.

This was followed by a string of flights were for some reason I kept getting into irrecoverable high speed spins that was really aggravating.

Finally their was a continual furball on the coast that I entered. A Spit was chasing one of out FW's and I got on his tail. He disengaged and began a long series of low alt scissors and yo-yos to try and shake me. I was only getting a few hits due to his maneuvering when his wingman got on my six. Once again not using the best jurisprudence I figured if I was turning wildly to stay on his six his wingman would have an equally hard time to stay on mine. This fight also went on for quite a while until I finally got a killing blow on the first Spit. By this time I believe it was Plague had come to help in his FW. He made a pass at the bandit on my tail and I began some split esses to try to get on his tail. Badly shot up again, but with a good engine I managed to get on his tail. He appeared to be trying to head back to his base and was outrunning me in a straight line but a few short bursts made him think I was closer and he tried maneuvering which allowed me to close the gap. As he started to make wide banking turns in the general direction of the island I closed to 45 and took another quick burst leading him a bit. I saw a nice flash in the middle of the plane and it immediately nosed over and went into the drink, now that was lucky! I assume it was a pilot kill.

The JG1 guys were very courteous and I had a great time, I also noticed our guys are getting really good with the BnZ FW tactics. We just need to team up like the JG1 guys do, it was very hard to get a kill when there is always a wingman ready to get on your six when you engage. Using BnZ though you can get away with no wingman somewhat, since you don't stay engaged.

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Good post Cephas, thanks. I too was very impressed with JG1's pairs skills during CoT 1. From takeoff to landing, it was clear how much they had trained.

You reminded me that my most satisfying CoT 1 moment was a pilot kill on the tarmac, from my HE-111 18,000 feet above the airfield. Your 3 with one blow was even better! /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_biggrin.gif&key=64cd7b7a0036899205810ec0a5b90ed7121d5889dd92733089c47c9758b7f4ae">

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It was with out a doubt a god time last night. It felt, at times, like the old RB days against JG1.

JG1 still is excellent at team tactics. It seemed everytime I got on some ones six another JG1 was soon glued to mine. I was for the most part able to dive away from the spits in the FW.

What I think we need to discuss, IMHO, is our failure as WW's to work well as a team. To often last night it seemed we were going in piece meal, instead of as a cohesive fighting unit. On at least two occasions I triedd to join on another WW after take off. Once I was partially succesful and the other time I was not. I know someone tried to join on me once, but then gave up saying he would meet me at the beach. In order to fight against JG1 we are going to have to do better with the team work. Then again, we always do seem to pull it together when it counts.

The other thing I noticed is we need to get better withour position reports. This one I am very guilty of and I know it. The lack of own plane on the map is very frustrating to me. As I have said before, the use of a cartoon map for navigation only adds extra difficulty, not realism. I found large, prominent, geographic features along the shoreline that do not appear on the "map". If these kind of features are not on there, then we are really going to have a hard time using it for navigation.

Now because of the difficulty in knowing where we are, our position reporting has gotten very bad. At one point some one said he was engaged "south of the bridge". Swiveling my head around in the cockpit at 3,000 meters I could see 5 bridges. I was trying to vector Wringer to me at one point, and I'm sure all my blabbering on the radio did nothing more than confuse him. We all need to get better at vectoring assistance to us if we are engaged with the enemy.

We did a god job with our comms. There was not a lot of wasted chatter on the net. Transmissions for the most part were brief and to the point,. The way they should be. We did a good job of airspace control around a busy single runway field, and to my knowledge, had no collisions on the runway or taxi ways.

Hope nobody takes any offense from this rather long rambling post. Just some things I noticed that maybe the training O's can work on a bit on training nights.

All in all it was a real fun night and enjoyed flying with everyone. Even if Deglow does think I rammed him. /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_twisted.gif&key=76870aa9df6931b692ccc9ef4c7472a7834d1d9dfc6a76eccadd1fa39c0df891">

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It was with out a doubt a god time last night. It felt, at times, like the old RB days against JG1.

JG1 still is excellent at team tactics. It seemed everytime I got on some ones six another JG1 was soon glued to mine. I was for the most part able to dive away from the spits in the FW.

What I think we need to discuss, IMHO, is our failure as WW's to work well as a team. To often last night it seemed we were going in piece meal, instead of as a cohesive fighting unit. On at least two occasions I triedd to join on another WW after take off. Once I was partially succesful and the other time I was not. I know someone tried to join on me once, but then gave up saying he would meet me at the beach. In order to fight against JG1 we are going to have to do better with the team work. Then again, we always do seem to pull it together when it counts.


Ok. You've touched on something here that has been on my mind since even before CoT1. One of the reason's I proposed several months ago that we hook up with a flight partner and practice as a pair whenever possible was because I had noticed that for whatever reason we have deemphasized the incredible priority of always flying with a wingman. Some will say that it should go without saying. However I've found that when something starts to "go without saying" it ends up losing it's priority to the things that are being practiced and discussed.

All skills that we might be learning branch off of one fundamental skill set, Wingman tactics and communitcation. Without this we can know our planes twice as well as those who don't, but who fly as a team, and we'll rarely come out on top.

The other thing I noticed is we need to get better withour position reports. This one I am very guilty of and I know it. The lack of own plane on the map is very frustrating to me. As I have said before, the use of a cartoon map for navigation only adds extra difficulty, not realism. I found large, prominent, geographic features along the shoreline that do not appear on the "map". If these kind of features are not on there, then we are really going to have a hard time using it for navigation.

Now because of the difficulty in knowing where we are, our position reporting has gotten very bad. At one point some one said he was engaged "south of the bridge". Swiveling my head around in the cockpit at 3,000 meters I could see 5 bridges. I was trying to vector Wringer to me at one point, and I'm sure all my blabbering on the radio did nothing more than confuse him. We all need to get better at vectoring assistance to us if we are engaged with the enemy.


Map situational awareness is a skill we do not practice often as we're not in full real settings except for CoT. We have some members who are very good at nme heading calls and self location on the map. In a bomber I'm passable, but in a fighter with the situation changing much more rapidly, I stink.

We did a god job with our comms. There was not a lot of wasted chatter on the net. Transmissions for the most part were brief and to the point,. The way they should be. We did a good job of airspace control around a busy single runway field, and to my knowledge, had no collisions on the runway or taxi ways.

Hope nobody takes any offense from this rather long rambling post. Just some things I noticed that maybe the training O's can work on a bit on training nights.

All in all it was a real fun night and enjoyed flying with everyone. Even if Deglow does think I rammed him. /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_twisted.gif&key=76870aa9df6931b692ccc9ef4c7472a7834d1d9dfc6a76eccadd1fa39c0df891">


I'm very glad to hear the good news about the comms. Hats off to our pilots and our training staff, as this again was a pet peeve of mine that I wanted them to focus on. Nice to see the results.

You're constructive criticism should in no way offend anyone. It's an honest assessment, and the only way we're going to improve is to constantly go through the assessment ,and then training design process. Our training staff should be observing the same things you are and working out ideas on how to train ourselves to overcome these weaknesses.

Thanks for the input. S! Edited by Guest
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Good observations all.

While fling the 190 I continually found myself flying alone trying to figure out where everyone else was. I don't know if it is my monitor, video card, or settings but I just don't seem to see the `specks' as soon as everyone else. :?

The training is working well. Even though I have missed a couple I kept my speed up and the Spits couldn't touch me. The only time I took hits was when I zoomed too much in the vertical and lost speed - I used the 190's roll rate while diving away, got my speed back, and extended away out of danger.
I have to get more killing shots in on my passes - I miss way too much against other fighters.

Kat: Deg' doesn't realize he got "rammed" by the 190's firepower. /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_twisted.gif&key=76870aa9df6931b692ccc9ef4c7472a7834d1d9dfc6a76eccadd1fa39c0df891"> Nice shooting!

One thing I noticed about how JG1 flew the Spit and we might see it again in CoT2 against RAF+ whoever .... I made a guns pass on a Spit - he broke right while I continued on mostly straight initially - as soon as it was obvious I was going to pass him he turned back to the left and back into me in an agressive move. It wasn't a problem as I was fast but I should have turned left a bit when he broke right so that he would have had to turn longer/harder to get his guns on me giving me more time to extend away.

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Is anyone going to fly the 109 in COT2? Do we have a limited number of planes to use and possibly end up being forced to fly the 109's if our supply of 190's runs out? If so it seems to me we are spending an inordinate amount of time on just 190 tactics.

just wondering...

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I think it's just that the 190 requires a bit more attention to get competant with. But yes, some 109 seat time will certainly be in order.

I'm not sure how the order of battle will come down; such as how many of this type and how many of that type do we (as a unified German squadron with JG1) have to start with. I'd expect to see more 109's than 190's.

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Is anyone going to fly the 109 in COT2? Do we have a limited number of planes to use and possibly end up being forced to fly the 109's if our supply of 190's runs out? If so it seems to me we are spending an inordinate amount of time on just 190 tactics.

just wondering...


All pilots should read the CoT Channel Raid rule set.

Plane listing is in the rules. There are MANY more 190's available than 109's.
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Is anyone going to fly the 109 in COT2? Do we have a limited number of planes to use and possibly end up being forced to fly the 109's if our supply of 190's runs out? If so it seems to me we are spending an inordinate amount of time on just 190 tactics.

just wondering...


All pilots should read the CoT Channel Raid rule set.

Plane listing is in the rules. There are MANY more 190's available than 109's.


Reaper's right, the plane list in the official rule set states:

Bf109 G-2 - 3 available
FW190 A-4 - 29 available

Hence the inordinate amount of time spent with the 190.
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i agree that teamwork is something we need to work on more. i feel that the biggest issue with this is discipline rather than not knowing how to do it.

i've gone over tracks in the past and a big issue is the wingman leaving his lead to pursue a target that looks attractive to him rather than being disciplined enough to give up the opportunity for a kill and sticking to their job.

when it comes to flying the 190's, the trail formation of about .5 to 1.0km between lead and wingman does a few things, it keeps the lead's 6 covered, and as he is the one doing the firing he will be the one to get closest to the enemy. if a target breaks then turns back there should be close to no chance of getting a good shot off. if they don't break then they should pretty much be dead ;)

you should always come off a firing pass at a different vector to your target, if they break keep going, if they don't and you don't shoot em down then a gentle turn should be sufficient to spoil their aim, plus it should assist your wingman as he takes his shot.

be disciplined, but more importantly, be patient. the 190 gives us a clear superiority so long as we're both.

also, if you haven't downloaded the 190 and 109 warpaints do it NOW /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_biggrin.gif&key=64cd7b7a0036899205810ec0a5b90ed7121d5889dd92733089c47c9758b7f4ae"> we should be making more use of them.

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