Comparitive Testing 190A5 vs Russian Aircraft

[Bard]

Just completed some testing of the 190-A5 and the news for us isn't good.

They can all outturn us and are fast enough that we do not have the usual 190 speed advantage.

The LA5-F is actually FASTER than us, other fighters are 10-20km/h slower than us.

We have two advantages, roll rate at high speed and high diving speed.

Here are some golden rules for us:
Minimum speed in warzone: 400km/h
Minimum climb speed: 350km/h
Minimum split-s altitude: 1000 Metres with combat flaps.

The name of the game for us is going to be SPEED and Teamwork. The closer to 500km/h we can keep the better. Long fast turns.

I would suggest that we employ our aircraft in a box formation, flight and element lead out front with their wingmen in trail to their lead.

Initial attack to be made at high speed before climbing at high speed up to at least 2000 metres, I would suggest we continue to climb up to altitude but we would leave the stuka's fairly vulnerable. Perhaps one flight should climb to 7K while the other stays around 4.5K?

We cannot get into turning fights.

I would suggest we use a LONG convergence on cannon - 500-800 metres and do our best to engage head on or stern on. This long convergence will allow supporting fighters to take long range shots at enemy being dragged by friendlies.

When in trouble we can use the classic 190 escape manoeuvre - essentially roll 90 to the right pull back a little to make the enemy commit to the roll before rolling the remaining 90 and pulling a split S before escaping towards friendly lines at speeds exceeding 750km/h.

Our VMAX is more than 850km/h - and the russian stuff falls apart between 700 and 730 km/h.

[WWSandMan]

:shock:

I knew those Yaks and La's would be tough... It's going to be a different sort of combat being out-matched plane-vs-plane. The deciding factor will be our wingman teams, and over-all teamwork. We can do this, and with the insight provided by Bard for 190 use, we have a definate head's-up on combat tactics.

Thanks, Bard!

[WWSensei]

Stukas can actually turn fight in a pinch. I had no trouble handling YaKs or La-5s as long as I wasn't outnumbered. The D5s 20mm cannons can do some damage. Added bonus of a tailgunner helps too. A pair of Stukas in weave 6 clears can survive. vS and I ran a handful of sorties on Warclouds the other night and survived all but one just clearing each other.

[Bard]

that's good to know.

[WWCephas]

Please remember the emphasis is not on air to air in this battle, if possible, lead the enemy away from the bombers and disengage as soon as the bombers are clear.

[WWSensei]

Please remember the emphasis is not on air to air in this battle, if possible, lead the enemy away from the bombers and disengage as soon as the bombers are clear.

Hehe, in the Stuka "disengaging" could involve a good bit of the evening... What she lacks in beauty she makes up for in slow...

8)

[2GvSAP_Chief]

What are the thoughts on the Bf109-G2?

The good:
-It's max speed at low alt is the same (or faster) than the 190-A5.
-Its max dive speed it 830km/h, which is the same as the 190-A5
-It can carry the same bomb load.
-I think it climbs at the same rate but not too sure as it does not have a climb indicator.
-It can perform the vertical manouver at 350km/h similar to the 190-A5.

The better:
- It is far more manuverable than the 190-A5
- It does not overheat near as quickly as the 190-A5
-it can perform a split-s using much less altitude than the 190-A5 and likely anything the Red side has

The bad
- less firepower, but then we dont need to kill them, just damage them so they cannot continue the fight. But if we are going after Sturmoviks/A-10's/Pe-2's the 190 is the best tool for the job.
- does not acclerate in a dive as fast but we are not going to be operating at very high altitudes anyways.

That being said I will admit I am biased towards the 109-G2 simply because of all the available fighters in this mission, the 109-G2 I know the most. /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_biggrin.gif&key=64cd7b7a0036899205810ec0a5b90ed7121d5889dd92733089c47c9758b7f4ae"> (and conversely the 190-A5 I know the least)

[WWPlague]

La5's cant reach the 740Kph speed the A5's can, in a dive. They will lose parts at least 100kph before we will. That being said, they will catch us at some point, in a straight line, after we pull away in a 740kph dive from 3-4k, but he cant hurt you if he cant hit you.

With Bards report in mind:

We must constantly practice our straight line defensive tactics, (vertical jinking).

A5 pilots, we must stop our circling in place, with a fighter on our six. First, who ever is coming in to help you, can not turn as tight a circle as you, and the bandit, so he cant help you. ONLY if we have the bandit greatly out-numbered, does this circling defensive idea work, but I wouldn't count on it being 3 A5's helping on one bandit, happening often, so....

Evade in straight line, dont climb, (Duh!), vertical jink!

And if you are chasing a bandit, count on him having someone closing on your six, if you aren't hurting him in 10sec's, you are in the danger zone, as far as being the baloney in the sandwhich that being built.

Wingmen, be prepared to help your teammate. Be aware of where he is going and where you are, in relation to him.

Chief, for my taste, the single nose cannon on the G2, just wont hurt a enemy fighter enough, for him to think the fights over, and he needs to go home. Yes, A5's have problems, but I believe it's firepower, both for A to A, and strafing, makes up for it's short comings.

[WWCephas]

I chose the FW for it's speed and firepower even though I myself am a 109 afficianado. The WW's also have trained extensively with the 190 series of planes so they are pretty familiar with them.

That being said I am thinking of allowing mixed units of planes to let pilots choose that which they prefer.

In any case when evading after the target has been hit be sure to run in the direction of your home base unless you are leading the bandits away from the bombers! If you are leading bandits away, still aim for a southerly route of evasion (SW-SE), this takes them farther from home base and will thus take them longer to land and re-equip.

[WWDubya]

I'll vouch for the DF-ability of the stukas vs the yaks... Last week or the weekend of the 8th (can't remember exactly) I dropped my 18 on target and assisted in DF duty... I scored 3 turning air combat kills in one sortie before I ran out of friends, ammo, alt, and ideas.

Noted: I'd rather not have to resort to that kind of activity if it can be helped.

Q: IF a stuka gets tied up in a DF, regardless of how well (or not) he is doing, should the pilot concede the battle after so many minutes, or continue to try forcing the action away from the path of the next target destination? (The pilot in question could conceivably hold up his other three flight-mates by extending the battle.) However, it's not quite so gray to me.. I vote to keep fighting for my life and safe return home.

[WWSandMan]

... That being said I am thinking of allowing mixed units of planes to let pilots choose that which they prefer. ...

With that thought in mind, I'd like to request Gold flight be a mixed set of 190's (Plague and myself) and 109's (Chief and Dart).

[WWCephas]

We fly like it is real life, do not give up the defensive battle just because the clock is winding down.

BUT, try to bring it back our way, to stay over freindly lines, or drag them over our AAA, and if you can, disengage and head home. If you are severely damaged and limping home, bailing out over friendly lines is acceptable in my opinion. Quite often I find myself taking planes home and trying to land them for the challenge of it when in real life a pilot would not attempt such a thing. If you take damage like losing an elevator or rudder and ailerons I would EXPECT you to bail once safely over freindly lines.

[WWDubya]

We fly like it is real life, do not give up the defensive battle just because the clock is winding down...

Excellent!

[2GvSAP_Chief]

... That being said I am thinking of allowing mixed units of planes to let pilots choose that which they prefer. ...

With that thought in mind, I'd like to request Gold flight be a mixed set of 190's (Plague and myself) and 109's (Chief and Dart).

Thanks guys that would a considerable relie for me. I am willing to try and work out the 190 if you need me to but I just dont have the confidence to fly it. Which goes to show I should probably start working on that....

[2GvSAP_Chief]

Just as a side note, you need to get an La-5F over 720km/h in a dive to get it to start loosing parts... /applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=%7BSMILIES_PATH%7D/icon_twisted.gif&key=76870aa9df6931b692ccc9ef4c7472a7834d1d9dfc6a76eccadd1fa39c0df891">