Counter not counting when deactivated

[WWDriftwood]

Maybe one of you guys know, I posted on the IL2 forums about using deactivated counters which according to the manual are supposed to count while deactivated, then when activated will trigger if max count is met, if not, continue counting and then fire once max count is met. My test say it's not counting until activated. Bummer. Hoping I missed something. 

IL2 post - https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/61439-does-the-deactivated-counter-trigger-count/?tab=comments#comment-936194

[WWSittingduck]

lol...sounds like you are going down a very slippery slope wood!   But trust me, i understand what you are going thru...you are trying to imitate a real life situation inside a game with ME.  You have what might seem to be the logic to do this, but are getting handcuffed by what ME can and can not do. 

what you might try, and have no idea if this will work or not:

take the links that normally would add to the counter, and instead of them going directly to the counter, have them go to a trigger timer set to something very low, like 1ms, and then the trigger timer is linked to the counter.

now take what you would normally have linked to deactivate that counter, and deactivate that timer instead.  Because you set the timer to such a low time (1ms), there is less chance when you activate the timer, there is sill some time on it, and it will fire, adding one to the counter and throwing off you count a bit.

when you want the counter to resume keeping track of things, re-activate the 1ms timer.

 

 

 

[WWSittingduck]

but the part of ME that will drive you nuts is when you have something going on in a mission (call it sequence A), and because something or someone did something you want to pause sequence A, and start sequence B, and when sequence B is finished, have sequence A pick up where it left off, or worse, try and get sequence A to start all over again.

the inability to "clear" timers and counters is a big handicap in ME.

[WWFawlty]

Tried what you were asking DW, deactivate does what it says with regards to the counter.

I tried first with one complex trigger then added in a second, one for enter one for exit to make sure of the results with no luck firing off the subtitle.

Here's the setup

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by WWFawlty

[WWSittingduck]

So, what is the verdict here?  

If at mission begin you deactivate a counter that is set to 2, and while deactivated hit it with a trigger a couple times, when you activate the counter does the counter fire off, or is it still set to zero until it gets an input?

[WWDriftwood]

The simple question is does the deactivated counter count as stated in the manual - yes / no (my test says no)

Manual Usage Notes
If you deactivate the counter using a deactivate trigger (pg. 280), the current value is still incremented when an input triggers the counter. However, the counter does not fire when the value reaches the maximum, but it does fire when the counter is activated again using an activate trigger (pg. 274).

IF deactivated counters don't count - were they supposed to? - is it a bug that will get fixed and later anywhere I use the deactivated counter it will start to count later when it's fixed, or not. 

Duck - you didn't watch my video   I have it setup to deactivate the counters at begin mission and as each counters max is met it activates the timer to the next set of counters so they start counting. This way each counter starts counting from the balance of planes and no OnKilled planes are missed. 

I just need to clarify the deactivated counter status. 

IF - a deactivated counter does not count and will never count when deactivated - Then you don't need to deactivate timers to stop counters from counting. 

I could try to simply start with an active counter, then as each max count is met activate the following counter so it counts from the balance.  - thats "IF" the deactivated counter will now and forever never count when deactivated. "otherwise continue with the practice of deactivating timers to stop counters from counting, activate when you want them to count. 

My specific need in using a deactivated counter that counts is to interrupt the following group from firing off if the previous group has not gone off because of delayed counters. If not there are several ways I can choose to count but this would be the most preferred way if it works. 

Fawlty - I'm not clear on the simple test you did. I'd have to look at the properties. 

Is it - Begin deactivate counter | enter trigger counts 1 plane | then activates counter | no subtitle because the deactivated counter did not count while deactivated. ?

 

[WWDriftwood]

8 minutes ago, WWSittingduck said:

So, what is the verdict here?  

If at mission begin you deactivate a counter that is set to 2, and while deactivated hit it with a trigger a couple times, when you activate the counter does the counter fire off, or is it still set to zero until it gets an input?

based on my tests, counter does not count when deactivated..... so no inputs for deactivated counters, stays zero, which means you lose counts if your following counters are not activated as each previous counter number is met. (I'll probably still leave the deactivated counters to disable links to counters until activated, then just activate the timers and counters at the same time)

I'm not trying to emulate a real life situation - test just emulates planes killing each other off to demonstrated it works. 

I have a setup that when I drop in my basic fighter/or other groups and go fly the mission, I don't know which group goes off first or the timing which changes from mission to mission and now I won't know what skill level the planes are at and that keeps changing. This all works as intended, pleasantly surprised. 

So all I'm really trying to do now is add a little performance security that prevents to many planes on the map at one time if no one shoots them down.

I think I'll just remove the front end 4 way switch for random timing and move it to the end where each group is selected, so I'll still have random timing and it won't affect the event triggers - I'll actually remove the link from the event trigger counter to the next event in the PW random event trigger, then let the kill counter fire off the next event when # is met. 

• 6 planes get activated
• Kill 1, 6 more get activate - don't know when they actually get activated on the map /random timers
• Kill 3 more; now you killed 4 of 6 on the map
• Still waiting for 2nd group of 6 planes
• And now Group 3 is now activated, just waiting for planes.
• That's okay........ build up is still going from 2 + 12 = 14 plane build up is within performance range
• No other planes get activated until 4 or more planes get kill from what's on the map. 
• So this should work fine. 

Next groups can't start until you have killed 8 planes - same thing happens - but it's always counting from the balance of "all planes in all groups" 

What I lose is the ability to shift the timing weight from event to event, like gradually progressing the random timing range for 6 events... Plus I won't know which group goes off first so I can make sure the first event chosen goes off immediately which I like to do.

But what I won't lose is it being unpredictable, which is the ultimate goal.... and I can still adjust random timing to force a faster or slower overall time. 

Unless I setup the random timer sets to be activated in order and all the groups are connected so it activates each 4 way set in order for whichever group goes off, then deactivates the connection to the other switches. 

Now that's running down a slippery rabbit hole slope of reverse post random apocalyptic timer madness. 

cool stuff. 

[WWFawlty]

2 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

Is it - Begin deactivate counter | enter trigger counts 1 plane | then activates counter | no subtitle because the deactivated counter did not count while deactivated. ?

You got it right DW

The counter is deactivated from the start, I enter the complex trigger zone (set for entering), count as one.    Run through the second complex trigger (set for leaving) to activate the counter to see if the subtitle pops up.

Conclusion as we all know now, counters do not work/count when deactivated.

It may have stated this in the manual which I didn't read but this is the way I figured it would work, Maybe best not to read the manual.

We don't need no stinking manuals

 

[WWDriftwood]

LOL well I've tested everything along the way..... so at least I know it all works now. Deactivated meant deactivated until I read that in the manual. It would be extremely useful if the counter had a check box for count while deactivated. I'll change my setup back if that ever happens.

I put the 4 ways after the event triggers before each group, so there's some random time/weight there, then separate delays to stager the planes activating, counters are set to go off, activated event to event so you can set them as you wish and they all trigger off the balance of all the planes.

So if you can keep killing the planes fast and meeting the counts, they still only come in based on the timing. You can end up quickly killing 4 of 6 from the first group before group 2 comes out "happened", end up firing off 2 more groups and one could actually start coming in before the other depending on the timers.

Another option is just zero out the random timers and run it on counters only, put it in roid rage mode. 

Works great, next is pit Allied / v / Axis and let the groups go at it and see how the performance plays out, probably set the counters a tad higher.