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REPLIKA throttle assemblies


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Pretty sure you can't use more than 8 axis in any given sim, even though you may have controllers for them.  It is one of the limitations of Direct X right now I believe.

The only axis DX supports are:

DX_X axis

DX_Y axis

DX_Z axis

DX_Throttle axis

DX_Slider axis

DX_XRot axis

DX_YRot axis

DX_ZRot axis

The other 2 axis are Mouse X and Mouse Y, which obviously are mouse-reserved.  You CAN assign these to a controller other than the mouse, but in my experience, it causes headaches when the software doesn't know which input to believe (mouse or your selected controller).

I have my Warthog setup to use 5 axis, leaving my CH Pro rudders 3 (Z-axis for rudder, X and Y Rotational for L/R brakes).  Windows (and IL2) sees the setup as Joy_0 for the Warthog and its 5 mapped axis, and Joy_1 for the CH Pro Pedals and its 3 axis.  You can connect as many joysticks as you like, and assign them to whatever axis you want, but the total number of controllable axis will never be more than 8 with the current iteration of Direct X.

So, I could (and have in the past) connect say an old Microsoft Sidewinder joystick (still preferred for Red Baron IMHO, it was a twist rudder setup) and it would still control DX_X, DX_Y, DX_Z and DX_Throttle (Pitch/roll/rudder/throttle) for that particular sim.  It COULD also control those axis with the Sidewinder in IL2, if I tell IL2 that I want to use this joystick (settings, it would probably come up as Joy_2), then the X/Y axis on the warthog would no longer work.

In reality, you could connect up to 256(?) devices to your USB, but you can still only assign 8 total axis, as listed above.  I have a Logitech G13 controller also connected to my setup, however, I can't assign the mini-joystick controller to an axis because I already have all 8 in use.  I can assign it to any button, keyboard key or keyboard combination, but not an axis.

With the old Cougar, if you were running rudder pedals with L/R brakes, the thumb "slew switch" became non-functional, as it was typically mapped to Mouse X and Y.  In Foxy, you could re-assign another axis if you wanted, and then could use the switch, but it was a PITA to do, so most folks didn't use the slew switch (it was way to sensitive anyway).  It took me a long time to figure out that the thumb switch actually was still functional, just that I had run out of axis for it to use

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Yeah, I'm thinking this may be a TARGET issue.  I don't use any proprietary software.  I just plug my controllers into my usb slots and let Win10 configure them, and Win10 recognizes all of them and their axes and they are usable in all of my sims.  Heck, sometimes I even have my TM T500 wheel and pedals plugged in with all that other stuff and they work just fine as well.  Shoot, my CH throttle quad has six axes by itself.  And I definitely use all six of those and my joystick and my Warthog throttle and my rudders in IL2 all at the same time with no issues with something assigned in the sim to all axes on all of them.

It may be that there are only 8 axes recognized for each device.  I haven't tested that.  But that makes sense to me.  I think the particular axes you mention above are the only ones each device can present to the computer.  I don't recall any axis named anything other than those on any of my devices.  On my CH quadrant, for instance, the six axes are those you listed above minus the throttle and slider. 

But, in DCS, my VKB has two sliders that are recognized.  One on the base and the brake lever as well.  So, I'm not sure devices are limited to only one slider.  Perhaps "throttle" and "slider" are both just sliders to Win10. 

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Posted (edited)

Maybe not TARGET, but I think Griphos nailed it with 8 axes per controller.  I have 12 total axis assignments in game.  Two on the stick, one on the throttle, three on the rudder, and six on the quadrant.  All work flawlessly.  None of them are combined, they're all separate devices in game.

Edited by WWChunk
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I'm going to chime in here, not sure about the number of DX axis limited to 8 per controller but I do know that IL2 is limited to a maximum of 8 controllers.  There are a couple of fellows over on the GB forums that have 11 controllers plugged in not so much to use all of them for IL2 but for different games/sims they play not wanting to switch them out all the time.  Any more than 8 controllers and IL2 only uses the first 8, 0-7 as identified in the "devices.txt" file.

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Oh, if using a Target profile, the Hog shows up as one device in Il2. Thrustmaster unified" or something like that. So instead of it appearing as two devices, it appears as one in the device list. 

That doesn't alleviate the 8 Dx axis limit, but it does allow additional devices to be plugged in and have buttons used. 

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1 minute ago, WWDarkdiz said:

Its the grey forward/backwards paddle on the right side of the Warthog throttle.  I use it for mixture.

Friction is the round knob above the throttles, gives tension to the throttle axis. 

That flapper doodad to the right is... ant elev? I use it for elev trim most of the time. 

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I know 8 axis is a DX limitation, a lot of folks bitch about it.  I only found out about this recently, when I replaced my Cougar throttle thumb "slew" switch.  Turns out the old one worked fine, its just that DX didn't see it, and it worked only after I was able to install Foxy, and the old drivers from Vista.

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1 minute ago, WWSandMan said:

Friction is the round knob above the throttles, gives tension to the throttle axis. 

That flapper doodad to the right is... ant elev? I use it for elev trim most of the time. 

On the Warthog?  That round thingy is the physical resistance controller, its not electronic at all.  The actual name for the grey paddle is Throttle Friction Control, or TFC, and is mappable as an axis.

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1 minute ago, WWSandMan said:

Ah... Tfc, right. 

The knob that actually provides throttle axis friction is actually labeled friction. 

Makes no sense, as does a good amount of TM stuff, but it is what it is, and its just a name.  Ant Elev and Radar Range are throwbacks from the Cougar throttle.

AN interesting thing I discovered, is that FOXY (designed for the Cougar but no longer supported) STILL works way better for the Cougar than TARGET, which was supposed to replace FOXY and is more generic, but allows for direct script editing as well as the simpler GUI editing app (which I use).  Another "go figure" moment.

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I actually had fun using Foxy in the past. Had profiles for specific aircraft that I could load through batch files in a second. Still wish I had never physically worn out my cougar.

But Target is... Not my friend. So while I lose some depth of functionality (I don't bother to remember three levels of button combinations... I'm lucky if I remember a button's primary function) I do like have the capability to assign hardware switches as I desire in-game. I use those same buttons for the same functions in nearly all the sims I fly. So I can jump in a Camel, an Me-109, or a Cessna 172 and the fuel mixture button is the same on the controller. 

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9 minutes ago, WWSandMan said:

I actually had fun using Foxy in the past. Had profiles for specific aircraft that I could load through batch files in a second. Still wish I had never physically worn out my cougar.

But Target is... Not my friend. So while I lose some depth of functionality (I don't bother to remember three levels of button combinations... I'm lucky if I remember a button's primary function) I do like have the capability to assign hardware switches as I desire in-game. I use those same buttons for the same functions in nearly all the sims I fly. So I can jump in a Camel, an Me-109, or a Cessna 172 and the fuel mixture button is the same on the controller. 

Foxy was great for the Cougar, I had a pretty good profile I wrote for Aces High, that I could NOT replicate in TARGET.  When I program my Warthog in TARGET, I use a similar strategy, alike functions on the same button or switch for all aircraft, so even though I may have the FW profile loaded, I know the Cowl Flaps are on the same button as they would be for any other aircraft that have controllable cowl flaps, flaps, gear, trim, bombs etc are all the same no matter what profile I have loaded.  It is a basic premise of aircrew training, keep it simple as much as possible, and once the similar functions are learned, then teach the exceptions.  Makes it much easier to switch between aircraft.

I actually have Foxy installed with the Cougar drivers on the other laptop (the one my daughter "borrowed"), still works fine.  I'm reticent to install them on this computer because I'm not sure if it will screw up the Warthog, whose drivers are notoriously unstable to begin with.

I actually don't mind TARGET, it DOES give you more options than simply direct in-game programming.  Since I use the pinky switch a lot, it makes sense, to me anyway, to use it.  Note though, I purposely did NOT use layers in all those profiles I made, although I could, but it would complicate matters exponentially.

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  • 1 month later...

@WWChunk are you still using the combat pedals on the Crosswinds?  If you are how have you set up toe brakes?  Installing the pedals has changed the way the calibration software views the setup.  I no longer have a "X" and "Y" axis just a "Z rotation" for the toe brakes.  Of course IL-2 doesn't recognize the "Z" rotation as a valid input for assigning left and right toe brakes.  Unless you've come up with a solution I guess I'll have to research more or come up with one on my own😩

They are a nice addition though, easier on the feet while working the rudder for sure.

 

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I went back to the standard pedals about a week ago, because my heels were dragging on the floor while I was barefooted. Made it a pain in the ass. That being said, when I put the combat pedals on, it didn’t change anything with the MFG software. I still had the same X and Y axis for the brakes. That’s really strange that it changed those settings on you, Craven. Maybe try to delete the USB device and see if windows can rebind those axis assignments?

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Much ado over nothing, I must have woken up with a severe case of dumbassedness (yes, it's a real thing, not just a Wing Walkers thing) this morning.  While I wasn't seeing the expected inputs on X and Y, all I could see in the DIviewer was the Z rotation which is actually the left/right rudder rotation.  I re-calibrated the Crosswinds and everything is as it should be. 

So it's a note to self, check, then double check before sending out panicky cries for help.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/20/2021 at 12:26 PM, WWChunk said:

I went back to the standard pedals about a week ago, because my heels were dragging on the floor while I was barefooted. Made it a pain in the ass.

I could see where after an intense session you might get heel burns (hard to explain to the missus) and/or over the long haul ending up with distinct grooves cut in the hardwood from your callused up heels (even harder to explain the grooves to the missus).  I don't need to worry about that particular problem, never gets warm enough to not have to wear socks😁

So after a bit over a week using the combat pedals the consensus is "I like 'em".  I feel that I have more control over the inputs, heel resting on the floor, hardly any movement for the majority of instances, just a slight push of the foot for those minor corrections.  I'm thinking that it'll be even more precise when I get the damper in place.  Will post pics of the final setup when it's all installed.

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